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By H. Alan Scott
Senior Editor
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"You don't have to dial it up much. The reality of it is pretty disturbing."
For their new show Wayward, Mae Martin “wanted a friendship at [its] heart.” The Netflix limited series, created by and starring Martin, uses this relationship to explore the dark reality of the “billion dollar” troubled teen industry. Its origins “really are self-help cults from the ’70s that use these really kind of barbaric behavioral therapy modification programs. And it’s such an unregulated industry.” Working with Toni Collette—who plays the organization leader Evelyn—proved to be a highlight. “We were just getting excited about her [Toni] coming. We ended up watching all our favorite scenes of her. Then we were like, ‘Why did we do that? Now we’re terrified.’” That fear didn’t last long, because it was “beautiful to watch” Collette create Evelyn. “I wish someone could give her an Oscar just for getting out of bed in the morning.” The vulnerability of Martin’s work extends to their stand-up and what their audience expects. “They’re not necessarily comedy fans, and really what they want from me is like raw vulnerability. I don’t know how to be any other way.”
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I have to say, whenever I hear your name, I think of Madonna’s character’s nickname in A League of Their Own, "All the Way May."
That's good. I think about Mae West a lot, because I think my parents named me after Mae West. And then when I was 12, I googled Mae West, I don't know who the hell this person was and the first thing that came up was, "She took sex out of the bedroom and put it on stage.” And I was like, "Oh god.” [laughs]
That's Mae Martin. [laughs] Well, this show is fantastic. Considering your comedy background, I think a lot of people are going to be surprised to see you in this. Are you prepared for that?
I don't know. I have to just go moment to moment and not anticipate reaction or else I'll just stay in my bed all day terrified. So yeah, I hope people like it and are surprised. That would be great. I'm sort of surprised, but it's a story that I've wanted to tell since my teens and I feel like I've written a lot around adolescence. Like in my stand-up, I'm processing my own adolescence or I write characters who are looking back on their teens, so I've always wanted to kind of dive right into it. And then, I've always been interested in the troubled teen industry and having been a troubled teen myself and I had a best friend who was sent to one of these facilities. So yeah, I always wanted to tackle it and I'm really happy with how it turned out.
I mean, this show really does shine a light on these facilities, albeit through a heightened story. And I think it’s probably going to expose a lot of people to them, as well.
Yeah, I hope it starts conversations. As you say, this is heightened, we've used that as a framework and then there's this genre thriller twist on top of it. But actually, you don't have to dial it up much. The reality of it is pretty disturbing. And I think there's more awareness now. There are documentaries. Paris Hilton's documentary was incredible. But in researching that industry, it's a billion dollar industry, I was amazed to find. The origins of that industry really are self-help cults from the '70s that use these really kind of barbaric behavioral therapy modification programs. And it's such an unregulated industry. I feel wildly protective of young people.
And it’s tough, because on one level you understand a parent struggling with a troubled kid, but also not to this extreme.
And I'm sure there's a scale. The interesting thing in researching them is some survivors of these schools say, “It saved my life.” And so...there's a lot of gray area as well. But definitely in the early 2000s, there was just no transparency about these places. It wasn't like parents could find other parents easily or that students who had been there could find community with each other and process it. So I think there was a lot of fear and a lot of like Dr. Phil sending kids to brat camp and that kind of like tough love mentality. A lot of these kids were in crisis and probably just needed to be listened to.
You’re right about what it was like. It was almost entertainment, troubled kids, with these talk shows sending them to boot camp.
I know. Having been an addict in my teens, I think it definitely felt like the perception was that any kind of behavior like that was selfishness and hedonism. I think now we have more fluency around mental health. We know that a lot of that acting out is a symptom of something else going on or that there's something that we can holistically look to help it.
How did you get the inspiration to navigate how you were going to talk about these institutions?
Well, like I said, my best friend, so I knew I wanted a friendship at the heart of it between these two teenage girls. And also just tonally, I think, if you take teenage girls and put them in any situation, even like a life or death situation, they're going to also be hysterically funny, that there just is a sort of lightness there. And so to see these girls navigate this extreme environment, I knew, I wanted to do that, and then over time figuring out I wanted this dual narrative of this couple of Alex and Laura who are, well they've had to make major sacrifices in order to participate in the world as adults and they're kind of cosplaying at being adults and think they got it all figured out, but they're deeply troubled and insecure. So once I realized it was a dual narrative, that was helpful.
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I do have to admit something to you. Watching this show, it just reignited the anger in me that Toni Collette doesn’t have an Oscar. So my question is, how amazed were you working in the presence of the great Toni Collette?
I was so nervous and overwhelmed. Also, when you're show running or when you've created a project, you kind of feel like you're hosting a birthday party as well. You want everyone to have a good experience and a good time, and she'd flown all this way from Australia, [so] I was just desperate for her to enjoy the experience and I think she really did. She's so brilliant. She has such gravitas that I don't even know if she knows that she has it, that everybody wants her approval. But you never know when someone shows up. You don't know how they work or what they're going to be like, and especially if it's a hero of yours—that can be so crushing if it doesn't work well. But we had the best time and she was just such a joy and so collaborative. I wish someone could give her an Oscar just for getting out of bed in the morning.
She's the Australian Meryl Streep. What was that like watching her process?
Oh, I mean, I loved how she approached the character, because you felt that she really, Evelyn really believed in what she was doing and really thought that she was helping people on some level, but then is a narcissist and goes about it all the wrong way. It was just beautiful to watch. I struggle with eye contact at the best of times, but to be in close proximity maintaining eye contact with one of your heroes, it’s not hard to act nervous.
I don't think I would be able to be in a room with her and not say the line, “You're horrible, Muriel,” from Muriel’s Wedding.
I think she'd probably love it if you said it. Sarah Gadon and I, before Toni arrived on set, we'd already been filming a few weeks and we were just getting excited about her coming. We ended up watching all our favorite scenes of her. Like we're just between takes watching The Sixth Sense in the car and the Hereditary dinner scene, things like that. And then we were like, why did we do that? Now we're terrified, then we had to go and shoot a scene.
Because of your comedy background, do you ever worry about being taken seriously?
Even sometimes when people come to my stand-up shows, even before this show, I feel like they're not necessarily comedy fans and really what they want from me is like raw vulnerability. I don't know how to be any other way. And so it felt like there's an appetite for it and people were going to go with me on that, on that journey. And that's what I like to do as well, but definitely like in the earlier episodes, there were a couple of times where I was being very Mr. Bean, as Alex, doing some sort of stumbling around and it was like, “OK, I need to rein it in.”
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I do love Mr. Bean. Well to that point, because we’re funny people, do you ever sometimes hear yourself say something and find yourself saying it in a funny way unintentionally?
I don't, not really. I made [comedy series] Feel Good and so I got sort of used to diving into that vulnerability a bit. So no, I think I can resist the urge to like undercut with irony, but it's tempting for sure.
Well, and speaking of Feel Good, you gave us Lisa Kudrow on that, Toni Collette on this; can you please keep giving iconic women from the '90s?
Right? I mean, my list is the people who blew me away. I mean Parker Posey, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Megan Mullally, Bette Midler, Kathy Najimy, Molly Shannon. I have so many heroes. And growing up seeing these strong women playing these really complicated and weird and funny, unselfconscious characters was so great.
I need to ask you about your podcast Handsome, which you co-host with Tig Notaro and Fortune Feimster. Did you expect it to be as popular as it has become?
No, it's so surreal. It's also crazy. You work for years developing scripts and things, and then that's the thing that really has blown up. Like, it's just three pals chatting about nonsense. It's been really amazing. And the three of us didn't, we didn't know each other that well. Tig kind of, it was her idea to unite us. It's been mind blowing. Like every show I do, there's people in merch and it's just the best. And I like how silly it is. At least recording, it feels like a break from the heaviness of the world. It's just ridiculous silliness most of the time. Sometimes it would get deep, but mostly it's just ridiculous.
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